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Comment by: jackalguy (Jul 29, 2012 18:52)

Quote:

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Most of the criticisms have to do with the expectation that Microsoft will restrict publisher's options to sell software directly, instead redirecting them to the Windows Store where the company takes a 30 percent royalty cut.

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As if the profit incentives for PC game developers to develop envelope-pushing tech weren't bad enough. There's a reason that recent PC games have been little more than ports from consoles, and that's because bigger profits are seen when focus is directed at the console market. Gone are the days when companies like Crytek would push the boundaries of graphics cards and PCs in general, and if Microsoft is truly looking to get up to a 30% cut from PC game sales on top of all of this, it pretty much ensures that PCs will no longer push game developers to innovate their tech.

Comment by: KSib (Jul 29, 2012 19:42)

Let's all not get ahead of ourselves. We haven't actually seen what they're going to do. Also, you can't restrict publishers to only use the Windows Store. Please explain how that would work and not break Windows 7 applications that you port over to 8?

The only thing to note is that other games that are available via Windows store would make Steam and Origin and D2D (etc) less attractive to the average user as it would make a separate marketplace; which would be annoying. I wouldn't care either way as I don't see anything I would buy from the Windows Store ever, but I'm not everyone, and certainly not the average user.

Comment by: chefdamo (Jul 29, 2012 21:21)

To put out the money for the next os of the flop will hit hard.
The ideal thing and in a age where people just don’t have money to spend buying a microsoft os is to start developing gave for linux like ubuntu which i really like.
Microsoft wants more and more money but what they're doing is talking there os's and send them in a loop.
What I mean by loop is with windows 7 you can already do touch screen. So what have microsoft done put different icons on windows 8 change some of the look and boosted up the holes in the security of windows 7 and called it windows 8.
The thing that gets me here is linux is a better system and reason I feel it is because a community of people help develop it and give their input to what they want to see and where they want linux to go. Microsoft just pushes something in your face because they're so big. But what Microsoft forgets is ubuntu is getting so user friendly and with the deb file format is easy for home users to load their software and less commanding to do. I really thing in the next few years you will see a lot of people going over to linux and with ea games going to make games for ubuntu you will see a whole new market grow and people willing to spend the money on games as the os is free.
so I come to the conclusion that if microsoft doesn't show a really big change there going to flop out big time. microsoft really has
so to me its exe vs deb. free that works or pay that also works. as we know free always wins so for me linux is the deal.

Comment by: LordRuss (Jul 29, 2012 22:03)

After having played Diablo III & paid top dollar for that technological fiasco, it's not surprising we have yet another tech corporation whining they can't make 'scratch' to meet the needs of a new platform.

Another baby in the aviary awaiting a diaper change while also awaiting a father that will never show (a strong masculine figure that will stand up for them & say "it'll be all right", "we know you poor babies can't do it all"), all with their bottom lips sticking out, moistened with sadness & despair.

frankly, I'm tired of this "can't do", "maximize the minimum", screw em' hard for every last dollar, then let them figure it out" mentality/business model. Every one of them pulls this shit & then when the pirates pull the extra duty of customer service & extra levels & character models, THEN they want to cry foul.

No, sorry, they can kiss my ass. Nut up or shut up. Survival of the fittest & it's about time we ALL had gone back to a full global wide expectation of this from all vendors & manufacturers.

We get better quality & manufacturing from aftermarket automobile parts, why not the same from the manufacturer replacement? And if so, put a grade on it, then at least we know what to expect. You know, A, B, or C. Then there should be no room for complaints, other than pricing.

Pissing & whining that you can't make your games play in a new OS is like saying your older cars can't run on the new highways. It's utter bullshit. You just don't want to do the work to make it right.

It's like most of the waitresses these days, I can't even get them to fill my water glass even once after I have ordered, but they sure raise hell when it comes tip time.

Comment by: Anonymous User (Jul 29, 2012 23:21)

Get over it, people have to make money. Linux is a viable option but not one that is going to see developers thrive, instead if they go that way, what will happen is they will lose most of their revenue. They might help push the linux platform but they'll be bankrupt before that happens.

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Jul 30, 2012 01:07)

Originally posted by Yousuck_69:

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Get over it, people have to make money. Linux is a viable option but not one that is going to see developers thrive, instead if they go that way, what will happen is they will lose most of their revenue. They might help push the linux platform but they'll be bankrupt before that happens.

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Especially when Linux users tend to be more of the "everything should be free" mindset.

Comment by: SomeBozo (Jul 30, 2012 03:11)

Originally posted by KSib:

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Let's all not get ahead of ourselves. We haven't actually seen what they're going to do. Also, you can't restrict publishers to only use the Windows Store. Please explain how that would work and not break Windows 7 applications that you port over to 8?

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You're joking right? M1cr0s0ft would in no wise take such steps to ensure Win7 is supported when it would take money out of there own pocket. The only incentive for them is to make you purchase/update software only through the MS Store. Would MS ever be so bold to force such a manure (manoeuvre -- but manure seems more line here) that would force people to updates? Answer is... Yes. Mainly because no one was updating and purchasing Off1ce, MS changed the file formats in office so people could no longer use Office 97 the only software that was killing the new office releases... So MS did a big f' U and made it so Off1ce 2007 was no longer be compatible with the current version of office.. So MS has established their pattern to do such a BS manure.

Comment by: chefdamo (Jul 30, 2012 04:20)

some I agree with you and for those of you who think Linux wont make it lets see how EA Games and ubuntu do. I have a feeling you will be shocked that a lower end Linux system can run games smoother then a mid to high end windows system. With linux not having a registry makeit easier and quicker to load games and I can say this I have a Linux and windows system and parents have a apple system and i like the fact that Linux is buy the users for the users meaning in the input of what you want and some very quick fixes when and if needed. Just go to youtube and look at ubuntu or even chrome os.

Comment by: min5sevaan (Jul 30, 2012 07:04)

this doesnt sound too good.

Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 30, 2012 10:16)

Linux is not the answer; the userbase is too small. You might as well say that they should restrict their games to OSX. It might seem odd to some of you, but the prospect of installing Linux is downright frightening to the average user, and to someone that took 5 years to figure out that [ctrl]+C = copy, learning a new OS is even more terrifying (that's why end-user systems that come with linux pre-installed are generally failures, or limited to basic netbooks that are used for nothing but web browsing).

Microsoft is not going to block older programs either; the ARM version probably will, but the x64 version will support them. It might give warnings and you might need to download updates manually, but most software will still work. They are not going to stop optical disk installs either. After all, they are making versions in languages for countries where the internet is still 56K...on a good day...they can't go 100% cloud. Plus, 30% of the sales price on open-source freeware is $0.00; and microsoft isn't going to host software for free.

Probably the biggest problem that software will have will be related to buggy software that just happened to work on Win7, because some function that was called for no reason didn't exist there...that, and insane DRM that will conflict with the default security.

Blizzard and Valve both have their own online clouds, and they have both been disasters...that is probably the only kernel of truth here; they know they couldn't do it right, so they assume M$ can't either. I'm sure that is true given the fact that Win7 will come in two flavors.

Oh, one other tidbit...registry is only a problem for software that uses it. Portable apps rarely have this issue unless they have dependencies. If some pirate can rip a game so it plays from a flash drive and doesn't touch the registry, why can't it be done by the company that wrote the game???

Comment by: Schmick (Jul 30, 2012 10:48)

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Yousuck_69:

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Get over it, people have to make money. Linux is a viable option but not one that is going to see developers thrive, instead if they go that way, what will happen is they will lose most of their revenue. They might help push the linux platform but they'll be bankrupt before that happens.

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Especially when Linux users tend to be more of the "everything should be free" mindset.

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Myth categorically busted by each and every single Humble Bundle run to date. Linux users have consistently demonstrated they will pay more *voluntarily* for games, Windows users are in fact the cheapskates. Remember, Linux users have the presence of mind to use a legitimately free (not to mention better) alternative to Windows rather than use pirate software. The Humble Bundles have proven beyond doubt that developers can successfully target Linux AND generate bigger margins.

http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humble/

Any other shills out there care to spread some more FUD about Linux?

Edit: Missed adding the statistical Humble Bundle data link. Just in case anyone really needed to be convinced regarding the "categorically" claim.

Comment by: Picazzo (Jul 30, 2012 20:28)

Yeah...and Blizzard is NOT Awesome either.....they been rehashing and using the same crap engines to make there turd games!!!

Comment by: Anonymous User (Jul 30, 2012 22:04)

Originally posted by jackalguy:

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Quote:

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Most of the criticisms have to do with the expectation that Microsoft will restrict publisher's options to sell software directly, instead redirecting them to the Windows Store where the company takes a 30 percent royalty cut.

---

As if the profit incentives for PC game developers to develop envelope-pushing tech weren't bad enough. There's a reason that recent PC games have been little more than ports from consoles, and that's because bigger profits are seen when focus is directed at the console market. Gone are the days when companies like Crytek would push the boundaries of graphics cards and PCs in general, and if Microsoft is truly looking to get up to a 30% cut from PC game sales on top of all of this, it pretty much ensures that PCs will no longer push game developers to innovate their tech.

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THe amusing thing is that this has been in effect on both Apples iTunes and App Store, with a slightly higher (33%) margin most of the time.... and nobody batted an eyelid.

I hate hypocrisy, I also hate double standards. If MS develop a store that can legitimately curb piracy, then the gains from extra sales will far outstrip the lost revenue from royalties.

Comment by: Anonymous User (Jul 30, 2012 22:22)

Apple is literally stealing from people with the way they run their platform, but microsoft tkaes crap for even trying to open their own app store. I will tell you, microsoft will not ever stop programs from being installed outside of their appstore. How apple hasn't already been cited for being anti-competitive by not allowing anyone else to sell on their platform is beyond me. You could say they have the monopoly on "selling apps on apple products."

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Jul 31, 2012 04:06)

Originally posted by Schmick:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Yousuck_69:

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Get over it, people have to make money. Linux is a viable option but not one that is going to see developers thrive, instead if they go that way, what will happen is they will lose most of their revenue. They might help push the linux platform but they'll be bankrupt before that happens.

---

Especially when Linux users tend to be more of the "everything should be free" mindset.

---

Myth categorically busted by each and every single Humble Bundle run to date. Linux users have consistently demonstrated they will pay more *voluntarily* for games, Windows users are in fact the cheapskates. Remember, Linux users have the presence of mind to use a legitimately free (not to mention better) alternative to Windows rather than use pirate software. The Humble Bundles have proven beyond doubt that developers can successfully target Linux AND generate bigger margins.

http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humble/

Any other shills out there care to spread some more FUD about Linux?

Edit: Missed adding the statistical Humble Bundle data link. Just in case anyone really needed to be convinced regarding the "categorically" claim.

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I never said NOBODY would be willing to pay...and those stats are a very limited example.

Comment by: Schmick (Jul 31, 2012 13:51)

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Schmick:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Yousuck_69:

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Get over it, people have to make money. Linux is a viable option but not one that is going to see developers thrive, instead if they go that way, what will happen is they will lose most of their revenue. They might help push the linux platform but they'll be bankrupt before that happens.

---

Especially when Linux users tend to be more of the "everything should be free" mindset.

---

Myth categorically busted by each and every single Humble Bundle run to date. Linux users have consistently demonstrated they will pay more *voluntarily* for games, Windows users are in fact the cheapskates. Remember, Linux users have the presence of mind to use a legitimately free (not to mention better) alternative to Windows rather than use pirate software. The Humble Bundles have proven beyond doubt that developers can successfully target Linux AND generate bigger margins.

http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humble/

Any other shills out there care to spread some more FUD about Linux?

Edit: Missed adding the statistical Humble Bundle data link. Just in case anyone really needed to be convinced regarding the "categorically" claim.

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I never said NOBODY would be willing to pay...and those stats are a very limited example.

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And what evidence do you have to support your claim that Linux users tend to be more of the "everything should be free mindset" exactly? 3 million sales not a big enough sample set for you?

Comment by: VGenscher (Aug 03, 2012 15:17)

I'm running windows 8 release preview , Franky its horrible and for the first time ever i have chosen not to buy Microsoft's newest OS this time.
I have had my family and friends try windows 8 now and all of them got stuck with in seconds (they do not like it at all), getting around is extremely frustrating and many other issues.

In fact I'm considering buying a Mac now due to me hating windows 8 , the only thing stopping me is the price tag. I have even checked Linux Ubuntu and installed it and now i can dual boot , sadly Linux does not cut it for me but i did try a Mac recently and found that it runs most of my software unlike Linux.

I love to upgrade everything but for once I'm not wanting to upgrade my desktop OS which is very depressing, upgrading is my hobby and Microsoft has done a bad job with Windows 8.
I'm sure Windows 8 is great on tablets but not for a mouse controlled PC, It's going to be a sad day when i finally walk pass it in shops and chose not to purchase it, its a first for me not to upgrade my copy of Windows.

I just wish that Mac was cheaper, or i wish that more company's would port software to Linux because Windows 8 is crap.

So my options are now the following.
1)Stay with Windows 7 forever, its sad not to be able to ever upgrade again, also downgrade any new pc/laptop i buy with windows 8 on it.
2)pay for a mac, sadly the price tag just don't seem worth it, its very expensive but a great system none or less.
3)Start using Linux which has great potential but sadly it's not ready to be the desktop os yet in my opinion .

Comment by: jackalguy (Aug 03, 2012 18:42)

Originally posted by VGenscher:

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I'm running windows 8 release preview , Franky its horrible and for the first time ever i have chosen not to buy Microsoft's newest OS this time.
I have had my family and friends try windows 8 now and all of them got stuck with in seconds (they do not like it at all), getting around is extremely frustrating and many other issues.

In fact I'm considering buying a Mac now due to me hating windows 8 , the only thing stopping me is the price tag. I have even checked Linux Ubuntu and installed it and now i can dual boot , sadly Linux does not cut it for me but i did try a Mac recently and found that it runs most of my software unlike Linux.

I love to upgrade everything but for once I'm not wanting to upgrade my desktop OS which is very depressing, upgrading is my hobby and Microsoft has done a bad job with Windows 8.
I'm sure Windows 8 is great on tablets but not for a mouse controlled PC, It's going to be a sad day when i finally walk pass it in shops and chose not to purchase it, its a first for me not to upgrade my copy of Windows.

I just wish that Mac was cheaper, or i wish that more company's would port software to Linux because Windows 8 is crap.

So my options are now the following.
1)Stay with Windows 7 forever, its sad not to be able to ever upgrade again, also downgrade any new pc/laptop i buy with windows 8 on it.
2)pay for a mac, sadly the price tag just don't seem worth it, its very expensive but a great system none or less.
3)Start using Linux which has great potential but sadly it's not ready to be the desktop os yet in my opinion .

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I agree with this assessment 100%. If Microsoft had any sense they would have halted retail implementation of Windows 8 until touchscreen monitors became more prevalent. The Metro UI is fantastic for touchscreen interface, but absolutely horrendous with standard PC peripherals. I'm thinking -- hoping -- that major PC makers will understand this and only include Windows 8 on touchscreen PC's.

I do feel that Windows 8 will find a very nice niche in the coming months when Ultrabooks begin to have touchscreen interfaces on top of full querty keyboard and trackpad.

Comment by: LordRuss (Aug 04, 2012 17:45)

Originally posted by jackalguy:

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Originally posted by VGenscher:

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I love to upgrade everything....

...upgrading is my hobby and Microsoft has done a bad job with Windows 8.

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I agree with this assessment 100%. If Microsoft had any sense they would have halted retail implementation of Windows 8 until touchscreen monitors became more prevalent. The Metro UI is fantastic for touchscreen interface, but absolutely horrendous with standard PC peripherals. I'm thinking -- hoping -- that major PC makers will understand this and only include Windows 8 on touchscreen PC's.

I do feel that Windows 8 will find a very nice niche in the coming months when Ultrabooks begin to have touchscreen interfaces on top of full querty keyboard and trackpad.

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As I am in agreeance with 'your' assessment, that MS is catering to the touchscreen aspects of the market & 'tossing their cookies' on everything else; you might want to amend your full compliance with VGenscher.

Nothing in his comment made me comfortable with the knowledge he knows anything outside the user interface of an OS. You are the opposite, for the moment. While most will argue that end user statistics are a deciding factor, truth be known, IT interface & their ability to maneuver within its environment means absolute.

Until a full blown Alpha can be justifiably shot down for the legitimate reasons we (the real nuts & bolts guys) have discussed here, we're still kinda shooting in the general direction of the last sound we heard.

Which goes back to my original beef with Blizzard & other vendors whining about the conditions of the OS. They simply don't want to comply. They want to act like cat fish. Lay on the bottom of a river or spillway & grow Jabba the Hut style fat on the food flowing straight down their gullet without even the effort of even having to chew.

Balance their complaints against the complaints of consumers to lackluster products coming out (given the price points, economy, customer service) & tell me I'm still wrong.